COACHING IN CHILD WELFARE
EXAMPLE INTERVIEW 2

Speaker 2: Hey Cici, how are you?

Cici: Good. How are you?

Speaker 2: Good. Thanks. So, before we get started with our session today, if you want to just take a minute to roll off the rest of the afternoon and sort of get present. Then whenever you're ready we can begin.

Cici: Okay. All right.

Speaker 2: Okay. So, what is it you wanted to talk about today?

Cici: Well, there's just been a lot I think on my plate lately. I'm a little bit worried about maybe not being able to get to everything. I'm not sure. Maybe you can help me identify some of those priorities. If we need to prioritize what can wait and what really can't wait so that I don't miss any deadlines that I need to hit or I can still tend to all the daily work I need to do while still getting to these other things.

Speaker 2: Okay. Well, tell me a little bit more about what's going on and how you've started to feel a little bit.

Cici: Well, I have three, four new cases assigned.

Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a lot.

Cici: I got two in crisis and then it's that time where a lot of reports are due. So, it's just making it look complicated. I've got a couple of ISPs and [inaudible 00:01:27]. So, it's feeling like a little bit it's all hitting at once and I'm not sure how to kind of get through it.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It sounds like a lot. So, I think it's okay to be feeling overwhelmed. So, tell me in your mind. You asked me what a priority was, but what in your mind is a priority? What are the things that you feel can't wait?

Cici: Crisis.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: I feel like if there's any visit needs to occur. I struggle sometimes because phone calls and documentation because documentation is really important. You gotta have that done but if I'm trying to work with someone who's a collateral or try to return a call or trying to get to a therapist, I feel like they have really limited time. So, I want to take that call if they're calling. To make sure that I can get to that, but yeah. It just seems like sometimes there's competing pieces there and I'm not sure. It feels like I get interrupted doing that quite a bit.
 
When I'm working on documentation, I'm getting interrupted all the time. It's making it hard to finish.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So, let me ask you. You've been around for a bit. How have you handled when this happens in the past? Our work ebbs and flows and sometimes it crashes down on us with all these things like you're describing today. How have you handled that in the past when there's been a lot coming at you?

Cici: Well, I think most of the time you just kind of figure out a way to get it done, right? So ...

Speaker 2: So, what's different about this time?

Cici: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it feels like there's more somehow than there has been before. The work is different a little bit sometimes. So, what might only take a few minutes and some documentation now with process changes sometimes takes a lot longer because you're having to think about it differently. So, that can be a slow down. It feels like with the home visits, it feels like I'm sort of spending more time there. I don't feel like it's more time that I need to be. I feel like I'm needed more there so that feels like that stretches out which then creates a time crunch in other places.

Speaker 2: So, let's talk about that then for a bit. Tell me more about this being needed more. What's shifting there in that way that you're conducting your home visits or the way that the people are asking you to be at the home?

Cici: Well, I have a few teenagers and teenagers are always a little rougher because they just demand more I think because they demand more from their foster parents sometimes. I want to be proactive. Because I've got kids that have a lot of potential crises. So, I've already got two in crisis. So, I work really hard to curb that as much as possible so that I'm not running around all the time, but I've got these other things that are coming up and I need to tend to these. Otherwise, I'm going to have crisis and that. So, I'm having to spend a lot more time with the foster parents. I feel like sometimes the foster parents aren't getting the training that they need. So, I feel like I have to spend a lot of time with them.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Cici: Providing retraining. Because they don't always hear it. It's not because they didn't get it, I don't think that they can truly understand until the kids are there in their home. Then it's sort of like reality and then you have to spend time with them revisiting information.

Speaker 2: So, it sounds like in addition to the work that's already on your plate which is quite a bit going on right now, it sounds like one of the additional really time sucks for you is the home visits in order to be proactive to prevent crises. To be with the kids who are in crisis, but also supporting and maybe even doing some retraining of foster parents.

Cici: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So, when you think about those things that sounds like taking the large bulk of your time, where do you see opportunity to reduce the time or the energy that you're spending on that?

Cici: Well, I guess one of the things I could do is there's a lot of resources I have for foster parents. So, maybe one of the things I could do is have them maybe look at some stuff and then discuss it with them when I'm at the home instead of giving it to them and discussing it and doing it all there. I could maybe leave stuff for them or try to email. I have some foster parents that will do email. Some don't. They don't do that. So, I have some I could maybe email and ask them to read ahead of time. I have some that I could just give and maybe ask them to read it ahead of time so we can talk about it.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: So, I don't have to spend half an hour just on that. That might be one thing I could do that we could see if that would help a little bit.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I think a question I have for you is what capacity do the foster parents have to be resolving some of these crises or to be proactive in terms of-

Cici: Yeah.

Speaker 2: - connecting them.

Cici: Well, maybe some. I think that sometimes foster parents get reliant on us to do that, right? So, that's part of some of the time suck though. In some cases, I can really spend time but it takes a long time to process with them and get them to think of things as normal. So, you gotta get ... That's a normative crisis or that's normal behavior. It's normal development. So, you have to process through that and then with that, then start asking them to problem solve it. When you were 16, even though you can't always do that because they weren't traumatized when they were 16 or whatever-

Speaker 2: Yeah but some of the behaviors aren't even traumatized. [crosstalk 00:08:07]

Cici: Right. They have nothing to do and so you have to spend sometimes just saying, "That's just normal behavior." So, I do think that there's some probably have different levels of capacity. So, maybe leaving it with them a little bit longer. Okay, so what did you try that works? What haven't? In some cases being able to say, "Well, if you don't want to try that, then you're going to continue to get the same result."

Speaker 2: Right. You're going to continue to get the same result which is running from crisis to crisis.

Cici: Right. So, maybe it's just a matter of being able to let people have that instead of trying to maybe I'm working harder than they are.

Speaker 2: It sounds a little bit like you might be.

Cici: Yeah. It'd be nice not to do that.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So, let's talk through some ways that you don't have to work harder than the people who are charged with taking care of the kids every day, right?

Cici: Yeah. That kind of feel better.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So, one thing was provide some resources, right? Provide some resources for reading and then checking in with them about that was an idea that you came up with. What might be some other things that would help with shifting the work priority in terms of foster parents taking care of the kids and you not having to do so much or you not having to work harder than they are?

Cici: Well, I think some of it's maybe just internal. Just being able to let go of the responsibility of that maybe. Knowing that if I'm supportive, if I'm giving the resources, there's only so much I can do. The onus is not on me completely. Maybe that's part of it and being okay with a foster parent struggling maybe. It's scary to think that they're going to call you Friday at 4:30 and say, "Okay well this placement," and you're like, "Whoa, whoa whoa." I think maybe being able to say what do you expect to change if you continue to ... Maybe holding them more accountable for what they're getting back.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So, then the work shifts a little bit from running and putting out fires to really holding foster parents accountable and helping them to understand what's normative and what's not and how will they expect a different result if they're not trying some different strategies?

Cici: Right. 

Speaker 2: I think that's fantastic. One of the things you also said was it's an internal struggle for you not to be uber responsible for everything that goes on.

Cici: Of course.

Speaker 2: We have the strategy in terms of helping the foster parents have more resources and pushing back a little bit in terms of their accountability. What would help you in terms of not just taking over that responsibility again? How do you stay?

Cici: I think that's harder to maybe gage for myself right now. I think there's a way, but I think ultimately it would have to be for at least a little while I think having you call me out.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: Being able to recognize it and say, "Hey. Is this a time that you need to or is this an old habit?" Because there are times that you have to.

Speaker 2: Right.

Cici: There's times when you have to work harder. Maybe not necessarily the client so to speak, but you have to hustle sometimes, but I think asking the question helps me to stop and think about am I doing that? If it sounds like I'm justifying it, then maybe challenging that a little bit.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to challenge you. No. Really, no problem. But no, I just wanted to offer that back to you to say that I hope that you'll be comfortable if I do take you up on that and really ask you sometimes like, "Okay, is this a your problem or a not your problem?" We can have that regular conversation if you're cluing me in on when you're going out to do that stuff.

Cici: Yeah. I think that I at least for a while might need that and that doesn't bother me or hurt my feelings or anything because I think it does make you stop and pause for a second and have to think about it differently. So, yeah that would be okay.

Speaker 2: I think that's a real normative professional development step too is to figure out what you own and what you don't own and how to hold the others responsible for it. I think that's a real mature step in someone's professional development and so I'm glad you're there, ready to take that step.

Cici: Thank you.

Speaker 2: So, we've got a couple concrete plans. We've got being able to give foster parents resources so you're spending less time with them problem solving in the moment, but also being able to push back and challenge them and hold them more accountable for behavior. Then also for me, to hold you more accountable in terms of what you're taking on.

Cici: Yeah.

Speaker 2: When would you like to get started with this? These ideas.

Cici: Well, probably the sooner the better but it's going to take me a minute for resources and I already have things scheduled for the next two days. So, maybe in three days I can look at my schedule and figure out how to adjust it a little different.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: Yeah. Then I've got those crises going on, so I kind of need to check in with them and just see where we are.

Speaker 2: So, let me ask you about that so we've got a plan three days from now. You can look at your schedule and we can get on schedule with moving forward, but there's still that full plate you mentioned and you mentioned these two crisis. So, is there anything that needs to happen in the next day or two that's going to help lessen your load or make you feel less overwhelmed?

Cici: No, I just think that that's sort of the work right now. Unfortunately. I got to check in with them. I think we were trying to figure out an intervention plan so that if we get to the weekend, we've got a plan in place so that we're not freaking out then.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: So, I just think checking in with the foster parents about where they're at. I wanted to do some feelings with them about how comfortable they were with the plan that we talked about so I need to check in with them and hopefully ... If not, maybe I'll tell them to come up with some solutions instead and then call me.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: I can check in with them before the weekend.

Speaker 2: So, maybe even with these crises you can sort of start to put the accountability piece in to play.

Cici: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Beforehand.

Cici: For sure with the one. I don't know about the other. I'll need to check. I've got a lot of follow up to do with that one so that's just a little bit more complicated.

Speaker 2: Okay. I know we said three days from now. I'm just going to practice now and ask you are you sure you're not doing too much with that other family?

Cici: Well, I just need to do follow up. I need to make some contacts. I have to call the therapist and I do need to call the family and find out what the next appointments are since we're looking at potential ... There were some potential hospitalization concerns.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: So, I feel like I have to do that.

Speaker 2: And that's only you?

Cici: Yeah. I feel like that that's ... Yes.

Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. Who else? Just in thinking more broadly might be able to add a support to the situation? In terms of the phone calls or the follow up or those things?

Cici: Yeah. Well, the foster parents can do some of that, but I think there's a piece of that where just a multiple layers of that and there's a process that I have to follow so I just need to make sure that we're doing that. So, I'm not sure. I have to think about that one.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: If I think about an alternative to that, I will commit to doing that.

Speaker 2: Okay. So, would it be helpful to have a check in on that too? So, we've got our plan for a couple days from now, but just to mitigate these crises if we can check in tomorrow or the next day to see that-

Cici: Yeah tomorrow I think is probably better.

Speaker 2: Okay. So, let's touch base tomorrow around the particular crises you have and then we'll put our other plan into action.

Cici: Okay.

Speaker 2: Starting beginning of next week?

Cici: Okay.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: That works.

Speaker 2: Was this conversation useful in terms of trying to get the place lessened a little bit?

Cici: Yeah. I think it's still there because the work is there, but it feels a lot less overwhelming and it feels more chunkable.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: It feels somehow less. Like you're not staring at the buffet but you're staring at ...

Speaker 2: Yeah. They do hope that you're able to come to me before it gets too much of a buffet so that you don't have to get overwhelmed and we can sort of troubleshoot together in the future.

Cici: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2: All right?

Cici: All right.

Speaker 2: Thanks.

Cici: Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Cici: All right.






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