Practice and Policy Lecture: Hoarders by Matt Paxton

Matt Paxton:  I am Matt Paxton. I'm the guy on Hoarders. I clean up dead cats and a lot of poop. In fact, I was doing that last night in Memphis. I didn't even leave Memphis until 10 last night. What an awesome draft, by the way, beautiful. I tell everybody I have the best job in the world. I get paid to help people. I get a hug and I get a check and that's pretty awesome. The rest of it doesn't really matter. I've done a lot of things, founded a business 10 years ago, Clutter Cleaner. I now work with ServiceMaster. They are here; they are your sponsor today. The reason I'm with them is we got too big. I get about 100 to 200 calls a week. I'll say that again, 100 to 200 calls a week from families around the country. Until last year, it was me and three of my buddies, two of which which were ex-cons. They were not allowed to leave the state or pick up guns. So, that makes my job a little difficult to travel around the country.  We looked around the country for people that were compassionate and could actually hug these ladies and actually understand what to do. We're now what? Eighteen months later and we have 62 locations of ServiceMaster around the country helping hoarders the right way. We're working on the affordability part of it. We're getting that close. Our goal is to have affordable, compassionate cleaning nationwide. That is our goal. ServiceMaster Store by High Tech, that's the group here in Oklahoma City. They actually did, they spent the money, they came to my class in Memphis and they sat for four days and listened to me. You're going to get a two-hour summary. They had to listen for four days. That is a lot.  What makes me qualified to teach? Straight up time in the houses. I have my degrees in Economics, believe it or not. You don't get into hoarding clean-up because your life was good. It's not because I was a strategic decision. I had failed at a whole lot of stuff, a whole lot of stuff. I actually am very proud. I actually got declined by three universities. I was trying to get into the gerontology programs. This is 15 years ago. I'm now teaching at two of those three.  I started in 2006. We'll sum up a really long story. I was an economist for the Federal Reserve, then became an economist for Caesar's Palace Casinos. I was living on the seventh floor of Caesar's Palace in Vegas. Pretty awesome. My dad and my stepdad died in six months and then I lost my two grandfathers as well. In a year, I went from being the baby boy in the family to the oldest man in the family. At 24, I was a tough, manly guy. I didn't need therapy. How do you think that went? Six months later, I ended up in a ditch in Lake Taho with a broken nose and I owed my bookie $40,000, yeah. You think that should be the low point, it's not. Called my mom that night, "Hey, I'm in trouble. This is real. This guy is going to hurt me. I need 40 grand." That was hard. Hearing her say, "No, you're on your own. Find a legal way out," that was really hard.  As a spoiled brat kid, I hated that answer. Now, as a parent with three sons, I really respect my mom for doing that. I don't know how she did it. Still not the low point. The next day, I got 12 hours left. I have $1,000 to my name and I got to come up with 39 more thousand. The options you put on the table. I thought about running drugs to Mexico, like I could put that whole thing together in 11 hours but I've put that option on the table. I thought about prostituting myself like this is going to make $40,000. Last but not really, that was an option, my best option, driving down the street, "I got to yank this wheel. Ending this is my best option." I really believed it. There's a few of you who nodded your head because you've been there, you've thought about it. Thank God I didn't do it. An old friend bailed me out. I actually had to move back to Chicago to pay him back but I got out. The reality of putting some really awful, illegal options on the table, that changed my life. A lot of your clients have been there. A lot of your clients are there now. A lot of you have been there. It's important because that didn't make sense to me in 2001, 2002, 2003. I had three more years of failing. I had two other businesses that failed. I started a moving business for seniors, failed. I started a flip-flop cleaner business, failed. Go figure. It's called Paxton Sandal Saver, it did not do well. I even had a personal pan pizza called Bling-Bling Pizza and it had a free fake gold chain in every box. That failed. Failure after failure, living on everybody's couches. My mom kicked me out. You have that one buddy that can't get his life together and he told me, "Dude, you need to get your life together." I was like, "No, you need to." He goes, "No, it's you, man. You need to do it." That was very humbling. He was getting married. He said, "You can't sleep on my couch." I ran out of couches and I couldn't afford my mom's house. That was a humbling, humbling moment. All of them led up to another 15 years of failure. You really start to second guess yourself and about once a year, you think turning that wheels in the right move. The reason I keep dwelling that is because it didn't make sense for 14 years. It didn't make sense until the 15th year when I'm hanging out with this old lady that I didn't even know she was a hoarder and we're talking and I realized, "Wait a minute. She lost her husband just like I lost my dad. She lost her dad just like a lost my dad. She's just as sad as I am and she's cool. She's not a loser. I wasn't a loser. She just had some bad go at it."  It was that moment that I realized, "Wait a minute. Hoarders aren't nasty, gross people. They're cool people that something bad happened to them just like something bad happened." My bad problems were my own doing. With hers, they weren't. It did not make sense for 14 years. It makes sense everyday now. That failure will keep coming back and it's actually my number one tool. Thank God I messed up so much for so many years because now it's my fuel to work with hoarders. It's my equity. You can't go to school and learn this. You got to fail in life and I am the best failure in life. I yelled it, I screamed it, I owned it because it makes me better at what I do with my hoarders. No one in this room does your job for the pay, am I right?  Female:	That's correct.  Matt Paxton:	No. We do it because we want to make a difference. We want to help people. I want to do two. I just found a window working with hoarders. What you're going to expect today, I'm going to get into basic understanding of hoarding. My job is to humanize this. Get it? It's easy for me to be on TV and travel the country and say all the great things. It's a lot harder when you get the 94th call from this person in two weeks and you don't know how you're going to pay your bills and your kids are young and it gets to wear down on you. I want to teach you the compassionate side of this. We're going to get into some really detailed things that we can do, specific communication techniques as well. This is probably my favorite part of it. We've learned a lot of new things just being in the houses over the last 10 years. Again, my guys go through four days, you're getting it in about two hours. This is an interactive class. It is not a commercial for ServiceMaster. This is a class. I hope you will be better at your job when you walk out of here. If you're not, I did not do my job. I always say, ask questions. With this bigger group, maybe not. Let's hold them until the end. I will say real quick, everyone asked me about the TV show. It was a great opportunity. Five years we were on TV. At the end of the day, we were putting someone else's mental disability on TV for entertainment. I struggled with that. I still struggle with it. It also took me from a man struggling on $12 an hour to I now have a home and three children and a wife. There's a lot of biases I have to be upfront about. At the end of the day, they offered a year of free therapy for every hoarder. Without the free therapy, I wouldn't have done a show. That being said, I just got back from filming a new episode of hoarders and we are coming back now. They've ordered 25 episodes, so continue to bring it back. I will say the therapy is there. That was the key component. None of the experts will do the show without the therapy. To be honest, on ServiceMaster, we don't want to take the jobs unless they're wanting to do some type of therapy. At the end of the day, it is a mental disorder that has a physical ramification. The house will always fill up without the therapy. Period. I think it's ethically wrong to take the money if they're not going to do the therapy. Understanding hoarding. We all know what it is. It's a mental disorder marked by an excessive desire to acquire significant amount of possessions. That's a very textbook definition. I'm not a textbook guy. What I want you to remember is there's always a reason, always, always, always, always, always. 	It's easy to find that reason with a sweet, old, little cat lady that's just so nice and her husband died and you just want to give her a hug. It's a lot harder to do when it's a 50-year-old man that has two teenage daughters that are bullied in high school because they smell. Same disorder, one's a lot easier to be compassionate with than the other. All of these things, I'll argue that hoarding is really about tragedy. Something bad happens and then we go and we look for our self-worth in stuff. When my dad died and then my stepdad died right away after that, I went on a bender. I went looking for my self-worth and happiness first, in alcohol. Didn't find it and then I went looking for it on the craps table. Didn't find it there either, so I went to other tables. We all look for our happiness, our self-worth somewhere else. That's what our hoarders have done. Alcoholics, they go elsewhere. Drug addicts, they go elsewhere but at the end of the day, we're trying to find our happiness. Collecting versus hoarding. When I'm in a bar, everyone always says, "What's the difference, man?" "If I'm in your house, you're not collecting. That's the difference." Collecting is something you do with your family. The family is a part of it. I see everything from stamp collections to comic book collections. My mom and my wife, they collect angel Christmas tree ornaments. Not my thing but it's something they do together and it doesn't affect their relationship with anybody else. They have a whole storage room in my house full of these things now. I don't love that but it's something they do together. It hasn't affected us.  I had a client a few weeks ago who she was an extreme couponer. If you are, please don't be offended by this example. She believed her self-worth, her value is, "I can provide for my family by doing this couponing." Her kids were now living in the garage because she had filled their bedroom with about 3,000 things of toilet paper that she had gotten on sale. Where do we cross the line? The collection got more important than the family. That's another hard one that's ... That's hard to be compassionate for that person. She's still got a mental disorder. I think many of you know this one. Hoarding is now part of the DSM-5. That is huge, both good and bad. It's great because all the research that's coming out. I can't tell you how many research projects we're in and the research we're going to see three to four years from now is amazing. It's also amazing that therapy is often being covered by many insurance programs. That's awesome. It's really bad, believe it or not that a lot of our hoarders can now say, "Wait a minute. I have a protected disability. You cannot kick me out of my house." If you work in housing, this really changes your job and if they say a particular disability you got in some stage, you got to give them an extra three months. Who's paying for that rent? That comes out of our already very stretched budgets. People that wrote these things, awesome and I love it that it's doing more for my hoarders, more good than that but it is definitely complicating things. We've had nobody use that in the court case yet but we will. That's going to start to happen. Before we figure it out, that's going to drastically change our lives. In the end, I think this is the most important thing. From 20 years from now, we will say, "Hey, that started us going down the right thing." I believe in 20 years, [inaudible 00:13:32] an alcoholic. He was rehabbed the other day. People say, "Good for him." No one even cares. I eventually think we'll be there with hoarding but it's a long way away. 	I've got the numbers rolling. When I started in 2006, it was just under four million people were recognized hoarding. Now, it's between 10 and 14 million which is 10% of this country. There's 200 people in this room, that means 10 of you will eventually be extreme hoarders. I have picked out six of you. I haven't figured out the other four. Is that a bad thing? No, it's no one's fault that it happens. Something tragic happens to us and then our brain happens to go to hoarding. No one chooses to be a hoarder. The house I was in last night, we had two-feet of used adult diapers. Did she choose to put that in her room? Of course, not. No one in the right mind would choose that. What was the keyword there? Right mind. She was not able to do ... Her brain would not work the same ours did. We, we're all perfect; our clients are not. They can't help it. Why is this number increased from 3.5, 2.5 to 10? Does everybody want to be on TV? Straight up recognition. We're just more aware of it. When I started, you're right, we didn't even know the name. In fact, the first letter I wrote to the governor of Virginia trying to start a hoarding program, I spelled hoarders, H-O-R-D-E-R, I didn't even spell it right. Taking the career off right. Who's hoarding? You got the last of the depression era and in Oklahoma, this includes the dust bowl which is a very complicated era in time and we'll talk about that later. This is the group that really built our country. I don't mean technology. I mean, they went out and physically built fences, they physically built roads. These are tough, hard working men and females. Then their kids, the greatest generation. Also, these are the guys that went to the war, very tough, proud, hard working people. What's the age gap between these two? Twenty to 25 years. I have a five, three and a one-year-old and I'm 39. When my mom was 39, I was a junior in college. We're aging a lot faster. 	Then you go to the boomers, the biggest generation that we've ever had. What's the age gap between them? Another 20 to 25 years. In 40 to 45 years, you have three generations of the wealthiest people our country has ever seen. I'm the last generation that will do financially better than our parents. My kids will not. It's changing. Right now, 5% of the country is over 65. In 30 years, 35% of the country will be over 65. Ten thousand people a day turn 65 for the next 20 years. In Oklahoma, it's actually a little higher. Oklahoma is aging faster than the rest of the country. Now, we're not saying old people hoard. We're saying, "Tragedy happens with time." Tragedy is what causes the hoarding, not age. This is a big issue because a lot of people say, "Well, I don't have ..." I mean, especially I deal with insurance companies on this. They say, "We don't insure hoarders." No, you insure people that eventually something bad happens to them and then they become hoarders. This is our biggest call in right now, young moms under 35. My lawyers have asked me. I'm not specifically talking about anyone in this room. If this offends you, I am sorry but it's a fact. Our phones ring, "Hey, my seven-year-old is a hoarder. She has 100 purses." Does she have a job and a car? How did she acquire 100 purses? Female: Grandma.  Matt Paxton: Grandma, no. It's obviously a personal issue. Here, we are finding that the boomers are also the first generation to divorce multiple times. They didn't get divorced. They didn't get divorced. Now, we got two, three, four grandmas. I got one mother-in-law. That is a challenge. Could you imagine having four mother-in-laws? 	They're all competing and they're all throwing lots of stuff at you and you want to make her feel bad and so the house starts to fill up and then we haven't taught our kids to say no. They say, "Give me, give me, give me," and grandma says, "Here you go, here you go, here you go." Then young mom doesn't have the skillset to say no. That house fills up very fast with brand new stuff. It is easy for me to clean the house that has 300 cats. The dead cats go over here; the live cats go over here. That's really easy. What if it's six-feet of Christmas gifts or six-feet of everything from QVC and it's all nice and it's all clean? That's a lot harder and that's what's happening to this generation. By the way, I'm struggling. This generation won't even buy my book because they don't read. They need an app. I'm actually creating an app to teach young moms and their kids to clean. I have to. I've had it. When I teach at colleges now, I actually have to have ... They won't ask questions. No one will raise their hand. I've had to put another screen here with my Twitter feed and they'll twit me questions but they won't raise their hands to ask them. I used to say, "Look, I'm the speaker, deal with it. If you want questions, ask them." That generation is not going to do that and I've had to adjust to that generation. It is what it is. You'll hear me say her a lot. Hoarding is not all her. Researchers will tell you it's 50/50. Male and female hoard at the same rate. I'm just finding that women are more willing to ask for help. Shocking. We used to only get female calls. I would tell you, it was 95% female the first eight years. In the last two years, we're about 70/30 right now. Actual hoarders calling me directly, it's more men than women. Anyone want to guess why? Besides awareness, what's made men call more now? They don't want to be on TV, I can assure you that.  Female:	They've lost their wives.  Matt Paxton: They've lost their wives, you're exactly right. What happens when a guy over 70 loses his wife? He either gets married like tomorrow to the best friend or he dies. Most of the calls I get from the older guys are, "Man, I met my high school girlfriend on Facebook. She is coming here Monday." Motivation is motivation. I don't care. I will tell you in my new ... I'm going to write a second copy of this book and we now have to put a section in of dealing with the hoarder's girlfriend. I never thought I would have to do that because she is now more important than us. It's just different. You ever told a 70-year-old woman what to do? Don't do it. You'll hear me say her a lot. That's just by habit. Most of my clients for the first eight years were her, so most of my experiences are female-based. I promise you, it is 50/50. I think in two to three years, the numbers will prove that as well. It's not just the elderly, we've already talked about that. Super, super incredibly intelligent, another level of intelligence. I tell all my guys, "When you're working in a hoarder's home, you are the dumbest person in the house and you must accept that." We are part-time in our job. We're done by 6:00 or 7:00 everyday. Hoarders are 24/7. They are professionals. People say, "Well, they're manipulative." No, they're not manipulative. They're surviving. They're not intentionally manipulative but they're professional. It's like me going out and playing football with a professional football player. What's going to happen when he tackles me? I'm going to break in six pieces. That's why we get lit up by a hoarder when we walk in there and we say the wrong thing and they just tear you down because they're professionals. We are amateurs. Super, duper, duper intelligent. I've had three hoarders that were contestants on Jeopardy. Walked home with money, with checks, not you or me yelling at the TV, actually winning money. Show of hands, who had won that just blew you away smart? Anybody? Okay, good. Two out of 300; we're doing good. 	This is going to shock this room. What do you think our top three career choices are for our hoarders? Teachers are number one, not doctors but nurses are number two and anybody want to state what number three is? Social workers. Now, I wish I was joking. Now, what besides being underpaid, what do those three things have in common? A lot of stress, deal with strategy and they're all caregivers, caregivers. That's really the most important thing. They're giving up themselves on a daily basis, all three. You will learn that most of your hoarders are very caring, loving people. The items they take and keep are not for themselves. The items are to give to someone else. Everything they save is for their grandkid, the person at church, the person down the street. It doesn't mean that person wants those items but the intent, the mental intent is to give it away. They're looking for their happiness and their self-worth in giving away. We'll hold on to this. The reason this matters is, this communication techniques that you use have to fit around a caring mentality. A lot of people come in to hoarders and they say, "You're filthy, you're gross. You don't do anything." That's not going to work with a caring, loving person. They can't do that. They tune it out. They're not lazy, crazy or sloppy. Lazy and crazy need to absolutely leave our vocabulary. It's just like the word retarded. Ten years ago, I used to say, "Man, this party is retarded. Man, it is awesome." That's an offensive word now. I didn't know that until I had friends that had special needs children. We don't use that word anymore. Same thing with lazy and crazy. Crazy is not an accurate word. These people are mentally disabled. Bad things have happened to them. They're not crazy. I had one that I thought was crazy. I always say, ten times of my career, we've tried to have the person committed. We have never ever had a person committed. I mean, we were finally able ... Sometimes we are able to get power of attorneys, we're able to get a guardian or we're able to get a geriatric care manager. There's oftentimes you need different skill sets for the actual things to happen but crazy is a different term. Always a trigger--grief, divorce, abuse, empty home. We're seeing that a lot now. Tragedy comes in different things--accidents, loss of job. I'll be honest, sexual abuse, we see a lot. I am really surprised how much physical and sexual abuse still exist in this country today and I am shocked at how much volume happened in the '50s and the '60s. It's alarming. Empty home is a new one for us. A lot of calls we get now are young women, 65, successful. They gave up their career to raise their kids. They raised a successful family, the kids went off to college, got married, had their own kids and these women are 65 now and they lost their self-worth because they've put it all in the family and now they're just looking around and they're sad and they're depressed. Is that a tragedy? To some, yeah. Grief is very relative. I lost my dad 17 years ago, I still talk about it every single day. I don't think I'll ever get over it. If my wife and I got divorced, she'd be okay like next week. I wouldn't be, I'd be erect. At the end of day, we are all looking for self-worth and happiness. I think all of us are. A lot of us do it in positive ways--faith, volunteering, exercise, work, a lot of things. A lot of us do it in negative ways--drugs, alcohol. I jokingly say beanie babies. If you will learn one thing today, beanie babies are worthless. They have no value. I cannot tell you how many times I have to say that every week. I used to work in the triathlon industry and a lot of my friends did a lot of iron mans. I'll tell you, when you get at the super high level, professional level of triathlons and marathons, they're running from something. They're looking for their self-worth. The divorce rate in the triathlon industry is off the charts because they're looking for happiness somewhere else. Now, this is really a slide about how we are like hoarders. Our hoarders are looking for self-worth in other places and so are we. Difference with hoarders is they can't hide their secrets; we can. I'm going to tell you something. I lose a lot of people after I tell this. This is a true secret of mine. I once called a wedding off via text message. It seemed like the right way to do it at the time, not so much. Hurt a lot of people. Still stand behind the decision. It was the right call not to marry this person but I obviously used the wrong channel to do it. I usually lose two or three people in that room. People can't handle that. It's really awful. If I didn't tell you, you'd never know. I can hide my secrets. You can hide your secrets. Our client's secrets are on the front lawn. Fact story that my wife now plays on a soccer team with her and I have to see her every Sunday. It's not fun. My wife's like, "That's your problem, not mine because you're doing it." I'm going to get to it. I hear this from all my clients. They truly, truly believe they're going to get to it and we all know they're not going to get to it. It's not possible. I travel full time. I travel every Monday through Friday. This is my actual suitcase. Here's my running shoes, here's my P90X, here's all my running gear because this is the week I'm finally going to workout but I'm going to get to it. I really am going to do it. Last week I had a reason. I got busy, I ended up going to the bar, I didn't have time but this week, I am going to do it. I truly believe it, so do our clients. How many of you have a suitcase full of running gear? We got something. We're not that different, are we? A lot of them hold on to the past, so do we. This is my actual closet. This is my closet. These are my 28s, these are my 30s, 32s, 34s, 36s and I'm actually wearing this pair right now. There's 30 pair of pants in that closet. How many actually fit me right now today? Three pairs. So, 27 of 30 do not fit me. Am I ever going to get back to the 28s? What if I actually do my P90X this week? Still not going to happen. I have three kids. It is not happening. Last time I worked out, day before my five-year-old was born, honest to God. I went on a 10-mile run the day before he was born. We all are going to get to it in some way or form. We believe it and we all hold on to the past. You know why we hold on to the past because in the past, we were awesome. I literally ran marathon, I hiked the volcano in the past. You know why? Because I didn't have kids back then. I did stuff for me back then. Is my life better back then? No, of course not but we always look back thinking ... We always think the grass is always greener. How many of you have your college textbooks? You didn't read them in college. Why? Why do you have them now? Because we were awesome in college. We were naïve in college. How many of you have your CDs, all your CDs? Of course.  Female:	8tracks. Matt Paxton:	8tracks, awesome, even better. I want you to stand up. She deserves ... Stand up. You deserve an applause for that. That is awesome. That is awesome but we hold on to them. We hold on to them because we would in a Camaro listening to Free Bird and life was good. Life is harder now. Life is real now. That's really what's going on. 	Right now, my kid is failing out of college, my wife doesn't talk to me and I'm probably going to lose my job. That's what's real, not the past being awesome. We all hold on to the past and we all think we're going to go through it. We are no different than our clients. Theirs is just grosser and more visual. No matter how frustrating it is to work with a hoarder, this is really important, they would not choose this if they couldn't. No one wants to be this way, nobody does. I cannot stress how horrible this life is.  We as professionals have to keep our compassion. I get pushed a lot. I've been called everything. I've been called ugly, stupid, fat. I got butch in couple of times. It looks like that, that's fine. About six months ago, I got a really rough one. I walked in, she said, "You're that guy from Hoarders. Because you're always on the road, I bet your wife is sleeping with somebody else." "Excuse me, ma'am." She actually said, she goes, "I'm sure your kids don't know who you are and I'm sure your wife is sleeping with somebody else." This is in the front door. I'm not even in the house yet. It really upset me because my actual biggest fear in life is that my kids won't know who I am because I'm on the road a lot. That is my honest to God realest fear. I struggle with the whole ones. I'm providing, I'm doing what I got to do. I also had 10 years of debt that I haven't paid back. I'm doing what I had to do but I get into this, "Blah, blah, blah," just justifying it because it really bothers me. She figured that out in five seconds and she tore into me and said the thing that would hurt me the most because what did she want to happen? She wanted me to turn around and leave. What did I want to do? Turn around and leave. Also, I did. I was very hurt. I really was. Luckily, one of my guys, Ronnie tapped me and he said, "Man, we need to take five minutes." I was like, "We just got here. I'm not a taking a five-minute break." He said, "Get out." I went back to the truck, I calmed down. We're back there and I said, "Okay. Good news is I have never wanted to leave that fast in my life. That means you're the best that want to make me leave. If I had a trophy, I would give it to you." I said, "The bad news is I'm not leaving, let's get started." You know what she did? She smiled and she laughed because no one had ever stayed. That's what's going on. We can't lose our compassion although we know we want to because if we don't, who else will? We can't judge anybody. As much as I've traveled in the world, as much as I've messed up, I've learned that I am not ... There's no place for me to judge anybody. If you haven't messed up, I don't want to hang out with you. You're boring. If you're 40 and you've never messed up, we have nothing in common. None of us are in a place to judge. Total love and support and I mean that. You got to love your clients. I absolutely mean that. If it's real, not physically love, that's inappropriate but you got to compassionately care about this person. A lot of us, we've been doing it for 30 years, it gets hard to do that and we just want to go home but we got to remember to love them.  Have I talked about stuff yet? No, because it's not about the stuff. It's nothing to do with stuff. This is 100% a mental disorder. I'm going to jumping to the piles. How are we on time? I want to take a break. We're a halfway through. What time did I start? Okay, good. We'll bang through this.\ 	Stages of hoarding. Do we need to go over this or not? There's five stages, stages one to five. Most of you are a one or a two. Fives is who I see on TV, those smaller stars. Stage one, normal. There's piles all over the place but it's a normal home. It's totally functioning. There's a little anxiety in the home. That's my house. I've got piles of clothes, I've got piles of kits to waste and I've got dishes in the sink. That's normal. That's a living home. Is that bad? I don't think so. I'd rather have happy family in a messy house than a totally stressed out family in a clean house but the anxiety is there. Me and my wife starts to justify it. We say, "Well, if we weren't so tired, we would do this," and then we sit down and watch Desperate Housewives or whatever thing on Bravo. It's what the people from Atlanta yell at each other. This is a nice stage one garage. Does anybody's garage look this good? This is normal. I wish this was my garage. It's not. Not a big deal. I don't work with stage one, two, or three. I only work with late threes, fours and fives but ones and two are still part of the puzzle because guess what? All of my fives started out as a one. Stage two, the proper rooms are filling up, your storage room, your attic, your basement. The rooms you're allowed to fill up but they are filling up with stuff. The best thing is you're starting to see pet spills or like my wife will walk by ... She'll walk by the kitchen sink and say, "Wow! That sink is totally full," and then she'll just keep walking. Could have addressed it, chose not to. The choice is there. She won't invite people over because we're embarrassed of the mess but not enough to take action. I think most of us are now, "Yeah, I do that all the time." This is normal. This is really a stage three to be honest. This is a little aggressive. Stage three, entire room is becoming inaccessible. You're losing rooms. They live in a room called a cockpit.  What they'll do is they fill in an entire room up and then they'll go somewhere else and everything they own lives in about a two-foot area. We call that cockpit. Their cellphone, their medication, anything that's important to them and it's very important, it's their life. Remote controls, don't ever throw away a remote control in a hoarder's house ever. It is the access to the outside world. It's very important. Mind. Performance at work is starting to suffer but they're still at work. Remember, these are super smart high-functioning people. Everyone says, "Who pays for your jobs? All hoarders are broke." Not at all, my friends. Most of them have nice pensions. Remember, they were lawyers, they were doctors, they were nurses, they were teachers. Teacher's pensions, social worker's pensions 30 years ago were awesome, not so much now. They often have money, they just choose not to spend it on this. I've never gotten a call, "Hey, man. I got a lot of extra money and about six months to deal with this problem. Let's get a long-term solution here." My calls are, "I have no money. I'm getting evicted on Friday. Can you do this for free?" That's pretty much every one of my calls starts and no, I am not a nonprofit. I am picking up your diapers and your dead cats. I am going to make money on that. I don't have a problem with that. 	Here's the deal. We're starting to see bathing, not as important. It doesn't happen everyday anymore and eating is not three meals a day anymore. You're starting to see the fast food come in. When depression kicks in, it's pretty normal. When I'm sad and depressed, I don't feel like going to the store and getting groceries and making a meal. Could you imagine a full depression all the time? This is a pretty normal three ... What is one thing, I mean, there are a lot of things in this picture that bother people, what's the most important thing that's bad about this picture? Stove. There's an aerosol can on top of the stove, the chemicals. Now, what's ... Are there any inspectors here? No, code enforcement guys here? This is all APS, right? Is everyone here a mandated reporter? That is a gas stove, so there's a pile of light. That changes things. By the way, this is a condo, not a standalone home. So, there's eight other units. Are you reporting this? Absolutely, ethically and legally. I'm actually not a mandated reported but I can't leave a house with that can sitting there on the stove. I just can't. If she hates me and wants to sue me, fine. The reality of a hoarder being able to follow through with the paperwork suing me, it's in the knot. Stage four, all but about one room is full and they're really starting to fill up. The mind, depression's kicked in, they're not living in the same world that we live anymore. They don't pay bills. It's not that they're choosing not to pay bills; they don't think about it anymore. They typically will go to Goodwill, buy clothes, wear it until those are done, so wearing it for about a month and then they're throw them on a pile and then get new clothes and put them on. So, we're not doing washing, we're not doing eating, we're full fast food now.  The weight gain has happened quite a bit by now. You see the reason. Everyone says, "Why are hoarders so big?" Because when you eat fast food for all your meals for 10 years straight, that's going to happen. Family is seriously concerned. I typically start at a late three, early four and usually, government is usually involved. Either APS has called me, CPS has called me, code enforcement has called me, firemen have called, somebody has been called by a family member or a neighbor. It's rarely the actual client calling. This is a nice stage four. This is a high but a nice little ... We call it a wall. It's like the Great Wall of China. They usually feel load bearing like you feel like you could run on top of them, they're not. What's really bad about this picture? The light, the accessibility to that light. That's a lamp with no lampshade, so it's right up against that paint and that could catch on fire pretty aggressively. What else is interesting about this picture? I don't know if you can tell or not.  Female:	Case of rum.  Matt Paxton:	Case of rum, case of rum, case of Goldschlager. This lady knows how to party or does she? Free boxes. You don't see a whole lot of other addictions going on with hoarders. All their hoarding is not an addiction; it's a compulsion. There's no withdrawals. It still behaves like an addiction. The ability for most of our hoarders that tend on the OCD side, they have to ... "Okay, what am I going to drink tonight?" There's 10 decisions on what you would drink and then, "How am I going to get to the store?" and then "Where's my money?" and then "What am I going to do with that bottle once it's empty? Am I going to use it in craft projects? Am I going to use ...? Do I save it for this? Do I recycle?" There's too many decisions to actually do that addiction. When you see this bottle, I'm not saying ... I mean, I've had a couple but when there's hoarding and I'm getting too close for some of you, I'm realizing this. You're saying, "Yeah, this is me. I do this." The reality is these are empty free boxes. That's a much better high than the actual living. Does that make sense? 	I've never had a drunk hoarder ever. I've had overly self-medicated hoarders. I get that quite a bit but I've never had ... I definitely have seen them popping pills but I've never seen a drunker and smoking, not much anymore. We don't see that. Stage five, house is totally full completely. Typically, we just had one in San Antonio a couple of months where she was living on top of her car port. The news chopper actually found her when she was flying by. They live in a car a lot. You will see them at Walmart at night, a lot of them. 	Entire day resolves around meal task. "I'm going to go to the bathroom today." That takes the whole day to do that. We staged this out one, two, three, four, five because people don't understand, "How does it get so bad?" No one just fill their room with diapers in one day. They start it off as a one and then something bad happened and then they got to a two and then more tragedies. It's usually waves of tragedies. It's rarely ever one. It's usually lots and lots and lots and lots of bad things. It builds and builds and builds and builds and builds. That's how they get as bad as you see me on TV. They're often totally isolated from the world except for who? You guys. You got to remember that. They've been very mean to family, very mean to family. Family took off. You're usually the only one that sticks around because you have to. This is a nice stage five. It's not as full but it's totally ... This is all mold and mildew up here. That's actually what the house looks like empty. That's mold and mildew and this is the kitchen. I mean, totally abandoned, almost looks like squalor. Someone was living and just so you know, the white bags were trash, the black bags were her diapers, used diapers and she was sleeping right here in all these course. What are they hoarding? Animals is the popular one and what's going on there is easy love. Cats come up, give them some love and all you got to do is pour some food on the floor and they'll figure it out. They let themselves that or they pee in the back better than you don't even know about and so they don't really care. Dogs require a lot more effort. You do see dog hoarders but you don't see as many. The reason cats are because they give you the highest amount of affection but the lowest amount of effort. My wife compares it to that show Sister Wives. She said you would never see a woman with four husbands because it would take so much effort to take care of them. She compares them to dog hoarding and cat hoarding. This easy love is false. It's false because the cats ... Anybody here have cats? I can tell you a story. It's going to ruin cats forever. Are we cool with that? I'm going to do it. I love it. I worked with one of the top ... Let me check. She's a criminal investigator that ... What's the word? Forensic vet, they're out at New Mexico and we've done a bunch of ... They do all the FBI profiling for dog cases and all the really bad stuff. I was traveling with her and she has cats. She said, "Cats have been breeding only for about 100 years." She goes, "Dogs been bred for thousands of years." She goes, "There were a lot of animals until we ate them up until the '40s." She goes, "With dogs, they're very regal and they've had years, thousand generations to get cleaned out and to get there but cats," she said, "Cats are still fighters. They're still scavengers. You see, when a cat comes up to give you love, it is not giving you love. It's trying to find out if you're dead yet so it can eat you." I was like, "That can't be true." She said, "Swear to God, that's true." She goes, "Some of them are giving you a little affection but," she goes, "if you're dead, they will eat you in five seconds." I would tell you this, from cleaning up those houses, I also did a lot of crime scene clean-up, when I cleaned up a suicide if the person had a cat, it was a much easier job for me. "You are welcome. I am done." I don't like cats with my job, I'll be honest. Information is probably the one you're going to deal with the most. Information, that's paper, books, lots and lots and lots of books, letters, photographs. Let's see what this paper really is. Is it about the paper? No. Think of who we talked about as hoarding? You've got women and men that are 80 years old. Think about it's a lot different for a woman now to go to college. It's almost expected but think about your 80-year-old grandma who's the first woman ever in your family to go. Then she was a teacher in one school, in one town for 40 years. That paper is not junk, that paper is evidence that she was a woman on her own, separate from her husband. It is proof that she helped thousands of kids. It is proof that she existed on this earth and mattered. It's in paper. Have you ever tried to take lesson plans away from a teacher? That is my hardest job. "I'm going to save it and give it to the next ..." No, they use [inaudible 00:50:04] They actually don't need any of these paper and it has cat pee all over it. It doesn't matter because they're not looking at it as paper with pee on it; they're looking at a proof that they existed and they mattered. My dad did not do a lot in life good. I mean, he's a great guy but he messed up a lot. He got a second job to get us Encyclopedia sets because he wanted us to learn. Anyone remember how expensive those Encyclopedia sets were? He worked a second job. He lost the job at N, so we had A to N. We never had half of that. When my dad died, I could not let go of that Encyclopedia set. I never read a single page of that Encyclopedia set. Still to this day, it's in my attic. I have not read it because I can go on my phone and look it all up but it's proof that my dad tried. I can't let go of it. I wrote the book on this. I can't let go of it. Paper is not paper. That is why this is so hard. Shopaholics are tough. Let's talk about the do-it-yourself and she got a lot of them here in this area. You got a lot of independent people because of the dust bowl, they had to defend for themselves and they had to create from nothing. You're going to take an 80-year-old guy's tools away from him? He built that house, he saved his family with those tools. It is not about metal. It is not about tools that you could give away. It is proof and evidence that he mattered. Let's get real personal here, crafters. I'm talking to you too right there. I'm talking to you because why is it hard for crafters? Because they're very good at what they do and they receive praise. "Oh, my God! This cake is amazing." "Oh, my God! This wreath that you made is incredible. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Can you make one for my nephew?" No one says that, "Oh, my God! Your collection of dead cats is awesome. Can I have three of them?" You don't get positive reinforcement from the outside world on animals and information. You do on do-it-yourself and crafters. On the do-it-yourself side and I typically say it's male-female but it's not. I had a do-it-yourselfer guy, it was a house in New York City. The guy would fix cars. He had all this whole acre of car parks in the Bronx. This is a full aim. This thing was worth a ton of money. He was going to lose it to the city. They were sending him away and we're getting ready to film the show and some kid just drives up and he said, "Hey, man. My car won't work." The guy goes, "Oh, it's an '84 Honda Accord. I'll be right back." He runs back to the yard and he comes back and he said, "I got to get a tool." Runs back, comes back, fixes it and said, "Pump the clutch, man." This kid pumps the clutch, "Vroom, vroom, vroom," it starts up. Guy goes, "Thanks, man. I never would have gotten to school today without your help. Thank you, man. You're the best." The guy looks to me and goes, "See?" How do I argue with that? He gets all of his self-worth and value because he's good at it. That guy ended up going to jail and he lost his house. That's why they're not able to just say, "Yeah, get rid of it," because they matter. We're getting why the self-worth is there because we all do it too. Food saving, if it's straight up food, I don't have an answer. If it's all raw food because they're going to say, "Well, that's just ... They're just trying to make you buy more food. That's a marketing ploy. That expiration date, it's not real. "No, actually, it will kill you." No, no, no. That's not real because their self-worth is coming from beating a mythical person, beating the man. It's not real. Their whole self-worth is fake. I don't have a solution on that yet. I'm still working on it. Collectors are tough because they're valuable. A lot of times these collections are valuable. We'll say this, collections are only worth value is relative. It's only worth when someone's willing to pay you. Most of our clients, they're like, "I paid a million dollars for that collection." Great. It's worth $150 but that's not easy thing to say. With a lot of our collectors, there's a social side of it as well. They're not isolated. They go to conventions. They go to events that are wrapped around this collection so they have more positive reinforcement there. Sale items are tough. QVC and HSN, this is probably the biggest deal I deal with all the time now. Has anyone ever been on a hoarded home that is all QVC, HSN? Just yell it out, what's the most interesting thing about that? The boxes are still closed which is proof hoarding has nothing to do with the stuff. 	"Good morning, friends. Hope you're having a wonderful day. I don't want you to miss out on this special deal. You really matter to me. For only six simple payments of 19.95, you can have this lawnmower slash blender. Please, please, please, please reach out to me, friend. I miss you." "Jane, how are you? How do you like that toy you bought?" Very big prey on our clients. That person is feeling very depressed from all the tragedies that happened in life and then that person on TV says, "Reach out to me, friend. Call me. I'm going to love you if you hit this button." So they buy it and they feel great. Then the next morning, they wake up, "Oh, crap! I shouldn't have bought that. I have no money." What do they have to do to feel good again? Buy something else. 	What did I have to do when I was gambling? I felt awful. What did I have to do? I gambled and then I wake up the next morning, "Oh, my God! I did a cash advance. What am I going to pay for this?" What I had to do to feel good again? Gamble. Clothing, it's just people who buy too much clothes. The worst part about clothes is ... Tell me what's the hardest thing about clothing?  Female:	The store.  Matt Paxton: No, but that lets me know you got to me in clothes. The issue is it comes back. It's expensive and a lot of styles come back. So a lot of people don't want to let go of it. We had a lady near Philadelphia and we're trying to clean out her garage. She said, "I got some dresses over there." I ended up, it was a crate of the original 1969, this Diane Von Foster ... Female: Fürstenberg. Matt Paxton: It was her first collection that she had hand-zoned. It's actually in a museum in New York now but we were telling her this dress just throw it away and I mean, it's like insane collection. Then the lady also had a whole crate of this original Gucci dresses from Italy and they all sold for five grand a piece. How do I say yes? See, you're saving this stuff. It really has no value. I mean, the clothing is stuff because it does come back. I'm not giving you answers because every job is different but I'm trying to make sure you understand why they keep what they keep. The home shopping is a really, really big challenge but it's proof. They never opened the boxes. It has nothing to do with this stuff. It's the high from the act of buying. No different than who here has done here. It's no different. Once I had a guy who's like, "No!" He was so excited. I don't normally put this in the deck but this is a real issue in Oklahoma. We are struggling. These 85-year-old women take pride in the squalor they're living in. It makes them closer to their parents from the dust bowl. They don't want to walk away from the struggle; they embrace it. It's their trophy. It makes them just like their parents that they love very much. It's unique to this area. I've never seen such touch, stern, hardcore women that it doesn't ... There's no therapy for an 85-year-old woman that grew up in a dust bowl. It doesn't exist. It is not going to happen. I can't change that. You know what the answer is? Say that again.  Female: My grandmother [inaudible 00:58:48] Matt Paxton: She had nothing. She didn't ... Yeah.  Female: [Inaudible 00:58:54] Matt Paxton: My grandma grew up in Mangum, Oklahoma and my daddy grew up on a farm. My dad's buried on that farm. She didn't see a car until she was 18. She didn't have a bathroom until ... an actual bathroom until 20 something. She married my grandpa at 14 because he was the other family in the town. There was two families but that's what it was it. You don't tell that woman, "Hey, you have too many ball jars," because they had nothing. I hate to tell you this, you got someone over 85 in Oklahoma, do you know what my answer is? Let them die. We'll clean it when they're dead. You are going to do more trauma to them unless there's an apartment situation where there's other people and you have to evict them because there are structural issues. If they're out on a farm or an individual, you're going to hurt them more by making them clean. They'll die ... Trust me. It's easier, it's much easier. I get people don't always like that answer but I'm just trying to be honest. It's a fact. Understanding the piles and the person, we'll go through this really quick. We usually do a two-hour class just on this. We've learned that the piles tell us different things. The way they're stacked tell us a lot about the client. You have to learn as much as you can about them because the way you choose the path you choose in the house matters.  I can't just go in a house and say, "Well, I'm going to start in the hallway because it's easiest for me as a cleaner." What if her husband died in that hallway? Why do you think she's yelling at me saying, "Hey, your wife's sleeping with somebody else and your kids hate you"? Because she doesn't want me in that specific room. That's actually a tell, "Okay. Something's going on here," or they stack some things in an area because they don't want you going in that door. They're protecting themselves from different secrets. We're going to really quickly go through this. You start to date the rooms. We get mail from the bottom and the top because they're not playing seeds. They don't evenly disperse all the stuff. They fill up a room for three years and another one for five, another one for two. It's a blueprint in time. We go in and date all these things and then we find out from interviews, what are the life events? If she got raped when she was 14 by her father, I'm not going to clean her father's room first. There's some serious mental anxiety going on in that room. The model I'm taking this from, her son died in this ... Her two-year-old infant son died in this room. That was the easiest room for me to get to because it had a big door, French doors that I could drive my truck right up to and take everything out of but it was the last room I needed to do, not the first because of the tragedy that happened in that specific room. You'll learn as much as you can about the rooms to pick that path. The goal is to lower the anxiety, not increase it. The only thing you need to know when you see a volcano, a pyramid or volcano, what this is is the ... This is actually a table. There's a chair here and a chair here but it's stacked up very easily and what's stacking is is they're putting the most important thing on top of the pile and then the next day, they put the next most important thing at the top of the pile and then the next most important thing. The reason they do all that because they're saving it. Now, what happens to things at the top of the hill? They roll down. When you see a pyramid, first thing you need to do, look down. Is this important? Is this item matter to you? It's going to change your job about two seconds but what have you done and showed this person by doing that? Respect and they are learning they can trust you. It doesn't matter if you find something of importance or not. You took the time to ask. What's the rest of the world saying? You're filthy, you're disgusting, you're lazy. We're coming in at different methods. Reverse volcano, what does that tell us? I made these names up. I probably should change a few of them. What does that room tell us? There's a path. If the path is there, it's always intentional. I always say, "Focus on the space they didn't fill versus the space they did fill." Let me ask this. Mathematically, is this room full? Mathematically, it is one-third full. Two-thirds of this room is empty. In fact, we used to show this, we used to do a little research with our clients. We bring in this picture and we say, "What do you see?" "Space, wall, ceiling." My wife compared it to ... She says, "Here we got married." She said, "We only have $2,000 left in our savings account." I said, "We have $2,000 in our savings account?" We're looking at the same thing and we see two totally different things. Our clients see it differently. They see the good, we see the bad. Same thing here. When you see this reverse volcano, there's always going to be a chair or a seating area in the middle. There is a chair and you probably can't see it. They're sorting. Those piles is intent. They're trying, showing effort, "That matters to me."  By the way, same thing, two-thirds empty, two-thirds empty. It is a bathroom because if there's a bathroom, my job's a lot easier. That means they have intentionally left this path to go to that bathroom. That's awesome. That's absolutely awesome. What that means is they're passing through this room. They're not dealing with any of this stuff. They're not addressing at all. This is the room where they'll say, "Yeah, my mom's pearls are three feet that way, four foot to the left and one foot down." Guess where the pearls are? Exactly where she said they were. They're super smart. When they say that, they're right, absolutely right but this is a room they're ignoring. So what does that mean? Either something happened or just this room's going to take a lot longer. Then you got rolling hills which is just total stuff. There's really no point to it. I don't know if you can see. Can you see over here? What's this up here? It's pots and pans but you'll see a lot of plastic bags hanging up high. What does that mean they're doing? Keeping food up high. What are they keeping it from? I'm going to ask you that question a few times today. The answer is always rats. I'm going to show you. If they're hanging stuff up high, they're keeping it from something. If you can't handle that at break, just go because this is going to get dirty in about 20 minutes. Here's the deal. There's no structure here. Look at this. Structure, they care about their stuff. Structure, they care about their stuff. Structure, they care about their stuff. Absolutely no structure, they do not care. This is a squalor, not hoarding. What squalor will tell you is there's other issues bigger than hoarding in this house. To a hoarder, their stuff is the most important thing going on. In this house, there's probably some substance abuse issue, there's probably some physical abuse issue we found. We typically get these in CPS situations. I'm not saying I won't clean it but I need to know what else is going on with social service before we clean this because it's a different issue. I typically will find guns and ammunition and drug in houses that look like this. That changes my job. If I got to pull guns out and I got to pick for needles, totally different job. I'm not saying I won't do it but it's different tools. My job is to never say no because if I say no, who's going to say yes? We see this a lot where the house is totally full. You see this house is actually breaking apart. I didn't do this house. The whole thing is being held up. All the electrical box by two by four because you imagine living next door to this. The whole reason I put this picture up here is what's the only answer when someone calls you to this house? "Tear it down. There is nothing we can do to help you. We're not going in. I'm sorry." My wife says everyday, "If you're dead, you cannot help anybody." It's true and I say it everyday to every one of my guys, "If you are dead, you cannot help anybody." This house will kill you. Checking those dates, putting it all together with all the life events, it let's you pick the right path. What that does is by picking that path, you put all the stuff, "What are they hoarding? We know about information or food or whatever." You pick the type of hoard, what the sizes are. You put all that together with the life events and it lets you pick a path that's going to have the least amount of anxiety. What's that going to do? It's going to do two things. One, it's going to cost less because they're not blowing up at you every five seconds. Our biggest issue especially with government agencies is, "How can you get the cost lower?" "This is how we do it. We listen to the client. We get to know them." It's also ethically the right thing to do. You're learning, you're getting to know them. I'm not saying, this is not adding 10 hours to your job. It's adding 10 minutes. Quick pop quiz. Which is the easier one to clean? One on the left, substantially. They've already done all the work. They've done a lot of work over here. This will take about half the time that that will assuming I find nobody handles over here. Let's take a five-minute break. We'll come back. So far good? We're learning a lot? I had somebody go out and take pictures of your cars in the parking lot when you guys are gone. I thought that was pretty intuitive. Nobody's getting that. I thought that was really good. I'm very impressed with that. This is my favorite. I love this. I did a class a couple of weeks ago and somebody brought this and I said, "Man, that's a good idea to break it down." So we learned a lot about hoarding. Let's get into the hoarder's mind. This is the real important part. Perception is reality is something talked a lot about. It doesn't matter what you and I believe to be true. What the hoarder believes to be true is the truth. Perception is reality. I can live with a hoarder and I'll say, "Hey, where do you sleep?" She'll say, "I'll sleep right here on this bed." I'll say, "Well, there's two years of boxes on that bed. They've covered in two inches of dust. It's not mathematically possible for you to sleep in this bed." She said, "No, I sleep in that bed every night." Is she lying to you? No. She believes she used to sleep in that bed, she's going to sleep in that bed, therefore, she sleeps in that bed. I used to work out, I'm going to work out, I work out. I worked out five years. They believe it, so it's real. There's no negative intent. They're not trying to lie. Just let me talk about the savings account. Reality, there's a perfect past. We get that a lot in the south. A lot of my clients they, "This is everything from my great great grandfather on the Mayflower and then my great grandfather, he started this fraternity and now my father, he runs this country club." They spent 10 years talking about three dead people. They actually had totally avoid 10 years of reality. Nothing actually happens. Same thing with the fake future. They're planning for some big event, "I am going to totally do the genealogy of my entire family," and they collect everything. This is on and it becomes everything that they do. Yet again, they've missed 10 years planning for a future event. Fake future, perfect past. Why do they do that? Because now sucks. Now is awful. Now is horrible. I do the same thing. I used to run marathons. I ran a marathon because I called that stupid wedding off via text. I was trying to get away from everything. I ran to Mexico to hike that volcano because I had to get away. We all do that in some way. 	Lot of things they're going to go through. I'm going to very quickly go through really cool opportunity I had. I got season five of hoarders. They came to me and they said, "Hey, probably last season of hoarders. We want you to spend the night in the hoards." I was like, "I don't know about that, man." Honestly, I had written my book by then, I probably cleaned 500, 600 houses and I felt like I knew everything about hoarding like, "What am I going to learn that I don't already know?" Problem number one right there. I've talked to the ... I called a couple of therapist and they're like, "Absolutely not, man. That's wrong. Don't do it. You're taking a man to the hoard." Someone mentioned Peter [Walster 01:12:42] earlier. I called Peter, he's like, "Absolutely not. That is ethically wrong. Don't do it. That is for engagement. That is for TV ratings, not for the client." I went to the network and I said, "Look, guys. It's wrong. There's not amount you can pay me. I'm not doing it." About 10 minutes later, we found out, "There is a specific amount of money you can pay me to make me do it." I got two kids at that point. I got a one-year-old and a two-year-old. I'm doing it. I called the lady and I said, "Look, I mean, you know what I do for a living. I mean, I'm not going to act like I don't make a money doing this." I called the hoarder, she said, "If you can actually teach people about hoarding with this, I'm cool with it." I said, "Okay. Are you sure?" She said, "Yes." She said, "I will be in my room. Let me be probably in my room." I said, "Of course." I timed it right. I was in East Coast. This was in South Dakota. I timed it right, so it was much later for me. I flew out of the latest flight. I landed in South Dakota at 8:00. I might had a Tequilla or two on the flight to get myself ready to get out. I still believed it would be very easy. I can sleep anywhere. I thought I'll just roll in. I'm a big believer. My dad taught me vary on your life. He said, "Look, man." He said, "You're never going to be the smartest, you're never going to be the best looking, you're never going to be the richest, all you got is hard work. That's it. That's all God gave you that's going to differentiate you from anybody else." He said, "Anytime it gets hard, everyone else is going to quit, you're going to keep working. That's your opportunity." So I believed that my entire life. I'm just not going to quit and I'll always be successful. So, I said, "Spend the night in the house, whatever. I just won't quit. It's fine." I believed it would be very easy. I didn't want to go in with a whole bunch of safety gears because if I'm in a bubble, I'm not going to experience this. I did put pantyhose under my jeans because you don't want cockroaches going when you're asleep. Do you want cockroaches going up there when you're asleep? No. That was it. I do climbed in. I went in right around 9:00 and it was late summer so you could almost see almost like a skyline of the city at sunset. You could see the piles but not much. They had put up these Go Pro Cams or these small little cameras with motion activation. So if I get up and move or she walks in the room, the cameras will come on, the lights will come on or just cameras come on because of course, electricity didn't work just. Now, just lead generators run it. I crawl in and I find a space and I feel pretty good. I'm easily six feet up. I can feel the heat of the ceiling. So the ceiling is pretty close to me but I'm more like a V. I'm laying back and I've got a box on my back and my feet are elevated but I'm actually finding a comfortable place, so I feel like I can do this. I'm pretty much there. I think I can. I'm going to close my eyes. The sun sets, so it's all black now and it's quiet for a good two to three minutes but that's a long time when you're by yourself and you can't tell, I'm a bit of a talker. No one else is there, it's a long time. It's probably 30 minutes for you guys, right? I'm just sitting there and I'm breathing and I hear way over there, I hear aluminum cans but that makes sense to me because my hoarders are often in recycling and you'll find entire bags of cans. Makes total sense. I moved around and I hear that cracking again. Actually, it turns out it's right below me but that's okay. It's a bag of aluminum cans. That sound is familiar, it makes sense. I don't care. Then I start moving around. I hear the plastic, the big two-liter water bottles. I'm compressing them. Makes sense. I'm fine. Then I hear over there, I hear some scratches. Not good because I don't know what that is. I've known everything else and I get a little nervous. I started thinking, "Well, it's too big to be a cat, it's got to be a dog, maybe a small dog." I started thinking, "Well, she didn't tell me anything about a small dog." They forgot to tell me about the dog in the write up. It's got to be a dog. I start to name this dog, Spot, this mythical dog because I really need that to be a dog. I started whistling because at my house, if I whistle, my dog, Abby will come up and shake her tail and I hear her collar and she shakes her ears. That's what I want in return. I said, "Spot! (Whistles)" Nothing. He must not have heard me. "Spot! Over here! (whistles)" Nothing and then I hear it and a light comes on from one of the cameras, so Spot's on the move. Then the next camera comes on and I was like, "All right. This is not a dog." What is it? We all know it's rat and rats are not solitary guys. Rats are very friendly. They have a lot of friends with them at all times. Never met a lonely rat. I'm starting to deal with this now. I was like, "Okay. What am I going to do? I saw in the news where this girl got attacked by a shark and she poked it in the eye. Am I going to bite this guy or am I going to poke him? What am I going to do?" I'm starting to make up this ridiculous story in my head. I'm trying to justify this. I'm still thinking, "All right. I'm going to do this." I'm starting to really think about it and then out of nowhere, the pile I'm on drops two feet. Now, I'm in totally dark. I'm under the pile that was above me and I'm rolling around and I'm very uncomfortable. This arm is now pinned and I don't know which way I am because it's totally dark. It's basically like a sea, like a lasagna of filth and I don't know what I'm doing. I tried to get ... I realized my body, I wouldn't feel air if I was upside down. Now I know I'm facing up but this arm is pinned and I can feel a huge box which I assumed is books and I keep pushing it but it keeps coming on my chest. I feel something on my face. If this bothers you, you need to leave now because it is like a cylinder but it's bumpy and my arms are pinned so I'm rolling it for texture. Then I stick my tongue out to see what it tastes like. I didn't. Shame on you guys for thinking that. I did roll my face on it because I need to know just like, "Is it a piece of corn? What is it?" I know what it is. It's poop. It's a big, long, dry piece of poop. Here's the question. I'm praying to God it's the fake dog Spot's because if it's not Spot's whose is it? I wish. It's hers. My life's going to get real different real fast if this dog doesn't exist. Real different and I wish I was making this up. I'm rolling it and then it really hits me, "What are you doing, dude? You are rolling this lady's poop on your face for money." That's what's happening. It sounds funny but then it's not funny. It's really pathetic. I'm not worried about gross. It's pathetic. It's sad. The reality is I can't quit not because of my dad's mantra, because I need that money for rent. I can't go back to my wife and say, "Hey, sorry again. I can't make the mortgage. Don't know what we're going to do this month." I have to stay. I have a one-year-old and a two-year-old. Anyone that's ever had kids, you go into total provider mode. You will do whatever you have to do to provide for your kids. I'm testing that theory at this moment but I don't have the option of leaving. I have to stay. Then another light comes on right over there. Now, Spot the rat is closer, I've got this lady's poop, I can't get my arm. Quitting is feeling like a really good option right now but I've just gone on national TV. I've spent an hour on a Howard Stern saying, "I don't quit, man. That's my secret. I don't quit." I'm faced with quitting. Then I get into my head, "Well, you know, dude, your wife always says, "If you're dead, you can't help anybody." I'm trying to provide for my kids but if I'm dead, I can't provide. My dad's been dead for 10 years," 15 years at that point and I'm really frustrated. I'm like, "I don't want to do this to my kids and I'm swimming in doubt and I'm swimming in grief." Then all I want to do, I'm now back on that road. I just want to pull the wheel. I just want to get out of there very quickly and I quickly go into a very deep, dark hole. I don't like to play gender roles but as a man, we always think we are losers but to absolutely know that you're pathetic and you're a failure, that's a horrible place to be. We are ego-centric men by nature. We need to know that we're good. You may not know that ladies, we're needy. I'm alone by myself and I know 100% to the core that I'm worthless and this is the only way I can provide for my family. I'm scared to death and I want to just die because I can't quit and I can't stay. Then I feel something crawl across my stomach. I feel the thick tail. I jumped up, I look in the camera, I'm like, "Dude, I am out. I don't care what happens." I crawl out and I looked at my watch, it's 9:43. The self-proclaimed guy that can do anything will never quit did not make it an hour. I was scared to death and I got really depressed, like super hyper depressed. If you go on Google, you'll actually see the poop over here. I cut it out for your ... When they launched the season, this was the picture they launched it with with poop on my face. My mom was so proud. Here's the deal. This is the mental state. I didn't make an hour and our hoarders make it five, 10, 15, 20 years of this. They had the traumatic trigger, they had the years of analyzing, I didn't make it 45 minutes of analyzing. My brain shut down and I am one of the toughest guys mentally. I dare you to beat me mentally, toughness and it broke me to the core. I could not make. They do it for 10, 15 years. They start to lose their social lives because they are isolated, then the financial stress. Anybody, don't raise your hand who've ever been chased by bill collectors. It is absolutely mentally draining. The phone rings constantly. They have that. Then their sleep deprivation that I just talked to that. I didn't make it an hour. I thought before that night that hoarders went to bed. They don't sleep eight hours like we do. They have lots of little six, seven-minute naps. Have you ever taken a Red Eye? I'm comparing this to taking a Red Eye every night, night after night, 10, 15, 20 years in a row. It takes me two or three days to get caught up after a Red Eye. They just keep doing it every night. Also have health concerns then the new stress. The whole reason one of us is at the front door, knocking on the door because someone called them in. They're not happy to see us. Then the fear but all going away. Believe it or not, it may be nasty but that stuff is safe. The stuff doesn't beat them, it doesn't rape them, it doesn't divorce them, it doesn't fire them, it doesn't leave them. The stuff is consistent and safe. That's often why it's a wall. It's protecting them from the rest of the world and they're afraid it's going to go away. Man, we come in, "Hey, how you doing, lady? What's going on? You get a good night sleep?" What the hell are we saying? They're going through a complete mental violence and we can't figure out why they can't remember their Social Security number. They're going through enormous trauma night after night after night. I call it a complete mental violence. There's a band called The Avett Brothers, I love them. One of the lines is, "Will I ever know silence without mental violence?" I love that, "Will I ever know silence without mental violence?" We have silence. It may only be an hour or two but this is complete mental violence minute after minute. I wonder it's so exhausting. We have options. I left because I could go to a hotel. I could get a steak dinner, I could get a beer with the guys in the van that were laughing at me, I had friends to help me get through that trauma. Our clients have none of it and it's night after night after night. You have to know how traumatic and awful their life is on an hourly, minute-by-minute basis. It's 24/7 365 for five, 10, 15 years. That's what we're walking into. Is it fair for us to bring in a snippy attitude because our teenage daughter said something to us on the way out the door and we're walking into what this person deal with on a nightly basis? No. That's meant to bum you out on purpose. We have 15 minutes. Stand up for 30 seconds, five seconds. Shake it all around, sit back down. That is going to bother you tonight what I just took you through. That is on purpose. I want you to remember that. I want you to remember that every time you go into a hoarder's home. I made you laugh and I made some of you cry. Why did I do that? Because a hoarder does that 20 times a day. It's a really shitty life. Excuse my language, that's what it is. There's lots of hazards. We got to be aware of them. Everything from shock hazards, gas leaks, you name it, confined spaces, lot of contaminated water, things you really got to worry about, cigarettes and diabetic needles. That's what's real. It's going to hit you every single day you walk into because every once in a while, diabetic needles are not diabetic needles, they're HIV needles. You must ask in every single house that you're in. It didn't bother me until the one time I said, "Hey, man. Are you HIV positive?" He goes, "Oh, yeah, I am. I totally forgot to tell you." It doesn't mean I'm not going to help him, I just need different gear. I needed some needle proof gloves. That's it. Got to ask these questions on everything. 	Real quick, I think all of you should have this in your car, you can get it at Home Depot with a Rubbermaid bin for about 50 bucks. Is your job going to pay for it? Absolutely not, you know that but you need to have it in your car. Rubber boots, not your tennis shoes, rubber boots. Girls, they have nice ones at Target. These are HexArmor gloves. These are easy. Actually, you can get these on Amazon. It's called HexArmor and these are actually needle-proof or you can just get the regular ones at Home Depot that are not needle-proof but they still protect you from other things. I wear a full Tyvek suit. Why would I wear a full Tyvek suit? It protects my clothes that I have on and if you've ever picked a hat box off of a closet, you may want to guess what's on the top of that hat box. Lots of roaches and rat poop usually. If you don't have that hood up, it's going to get in your collar and run all down your back and your front and you are now contaminated. I have done that many times. Wear the hood. Respirators, this is really the most important thing. This is a little excess of promotion. We use a full-faced respirator, very expensive, about 100 bucks for a good one. There's no excuse for not having an N95 on, N95. You can get them at Home Depot. You can get a box of 20 for about 20 bucks at Home Depot. You should always have one on. Don't have it on your forehead because you don't breathe through your forehead. I didn't really know how dangerous these houses were until I started working with ServiceMaster and they had pushed me a lot on my safety. You'll see me on TV always with my mask on my head. I was doing it wrong and I hope to God I don't die early because of it. Most of the guys in my industry are scared to death that we're all going to die early because we didn't know this one. Now you do, there's no excuse. This is my at the time 10-month-old son, Judd bud, he is now ... Excuse me, that's Temple. I got so many kids I don't know ... Temple. He's now a year. That is my home. This is where I work. This is the floor. It's what I call poop mâché. It's a mixture of cat poop, cat food, cat litter, all the bags are in it. They scratch it all up and then they pee all over it and it glazes over like a honey glaze. You're welcome. I'm going to ruin ... It's like a trifle. You've had a good trifle except it's cat poop and all that. Any other dessert you want me to ruin for you? I can do that. Here's the deal. It's solidifies over and then they come up and they scratch it all up again and the dust gets in the air and you don't see that dust. That is cat pee and poop dust. What happens if you're not wearing a Tyvek suit? It's getting on your cloths. What happens when you get into your car in those clothes? Gets in your seat. What happens when your kids get in your car that next day? Wear the Tyvek suit. Have I made my point? This is my son. Am I going to wear rubber boots that come off and go in my plastic bucket that never get near my kids or am I going to wear these stupid little booties on the shoes that I'm aware and my kids? I've made my point. I didn't know until last year how dangerous I was actually living and I was putting my kids and my wife in danger. We all do that when we go in these houses. Properly communicate. We got 10 minutes? Twelve. Can I go three minutes over? Is that okay? It's really important ... The hoarder's perception of themselves, they really feel like everyone is looking down on them. They feel like you are looking down on them. Are you looking down on them? No, of course not. You wouldn't have this job if you were but it doesn't matter. Perception is reality. They believe you're looking down at them. The only other thing that's harder than me walking into a house is somebody with a badge or a uniform. Guess what? All of you are in that classification. They already think there's a predetermined perception that they think you're looking down at them. We're already working against the clock when we walk in. A lot of times family is gone. We're the only ones coming in. Only way to combat this is the thing we call Equalizing. I did this to you today. You heard my name and then you heard the two worst things about me. I was a gambling addict and I called a wedding off and you all still liked me. You said, "Man, this guys is nuts." Not all of you. She's not sure yet but I told you honest, true facts about my failures because we live in a pissy world and I went the opposite way. I told you the truth. You all said, "That's awesome," but that's how you work with a hoarder. Hoarder doesn't want to live in this perfectly awesome pissy world. They want to live in the real failure world they live in. Guess what? The good news is we've all failed. We all have failures. Hopefully, you're comfortably sharing them. If you're not, don't push it. I have no problem. I scream my failures because I've been doing it for years. That's what gets you in with a hoarder. If you feel comfortable, share them. Dressing the part has become an issue. I have a lot therapists I worked with at Rolling and $100,000 worth of jewelry, a really fancy suit and high heels. Is that appropriate way to equalize with a hoarder? No. God, no. I'm not saying dress down but don't overdress because if you come in way up here, they're already feeling themselves they're down here and it's real hard to get in the middle because we have to be ... Guess what? We are equal. I'm one of the jerks that things everyone is equal. I really believe that. I'm no better than anyone else. No one else is better than me. Someone might have more money than me, I mean, they're better than me, they just happen to have more money. I cannot stress the sharing of your failures and embarrassments.  Our most important tools. This may be the only thing you take with you, that's fine. Compassion, understanding and no judgement. Period. Let's roll through this. Front door communications, don't I look really compassionate in my picture? I love it. Here's a compassionate picture for you. We have to stay in control. They've lost control in their life, they need to be in control of this whole process. When you knock on the front door, what do you do? Take three or four steps back, get off the porch. I could either talk to you like this, get right up on top of her, how is she going to communicate with thank you. I know this is awful. That's the point. It's awkward. How do I communicate with her if I'm right on top of her? Back away, give her space to open the door and come outside. That is her choice. She's now in control outside. Don't do that in an assisted living community because they will chatter, chatter, chatter. I invite them outside, "Hey, let's talk outside for five minutes. Ms. Smith, will come you outside?" I'm saying that if you're my client, you're at the front door, I'm all the way here. "Ms. Smith, why don't you come outside. I'd love to sit on the porch and talk with you." Only one time that she said no. I said, "Great. Can I stay in here and come closer?" She said, "I want you to stay there," and we talked from here. Guess what? She's still in control. So be it. Most of the times, they will sit with you outside. You talk about anything other than the clean-up. Someone just asked me, "What do I talk to my brother about?" At the break, he said, "My brother's a hoard. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to talk to him." Stop talking about the hoard. Talk about something else. Talk about real life. He's very aware that he's a hoarder. He doesn't need to talk about it all the time. We talk about weather. We talk about sports. It's probably hard for you guys in this town. There's no good sports here but try to think of something. I'm kidding. I know your basketball team is amazing. I'm from Virginia with the worst football team in the world, Redskins.  Wait to be invited inside. My guys call this the vampire rule. I don't watch those shows but apparently vampires have to be invited in, same thing with us because it keeps them in control. If they don't invite you in about five minutes, I say, "Hey, you know you're going to have to invite me in." I'm definitely pushing her towards her but she's still in charge of it. Specific word choice. When you walk in that door, I've said this eight times but this really is the most important thing I'll teach you today, "Not so bad, I've seen a lot worse." Why would I say that? They need to know they're not the worst. What if they are the worst? You'll always have one worst in your life. You don't lie, you tell them the truth. My worst was liquid cats. This lady had 60 cats in her refrigerator. Do you ever left lettuce in your refrigerator too long? Cats do the same thing at the bottom of the thing. This is what I do guys. That's a Tuesday for me. It's what I do but it's real. She asked me, "Is this the worst thing you've ever seen?" I said, "Yes, it was," and I gave her a hug. She actually invited me to her wedding. She's now gotten her house cleaned. She went to assisted living community, got a boyfriend, they got married. It's pretty cool. I doubt I'll ever see something worse than that. Every year I say that and then I'm like, "Oh, holy cow!" That was pretty intense. You can't like to them. You got to be honest. Hearing that it's not that bad is important but then you have to specify it but I sure wouldn't want my family member living like this because if you just say, "It is not so bad," they're going to say, "Great. Get out." Then why are you guys there? You might need to make sure to talk in her departmental here to make sure you're comfortable with this but most of the time, we see most agencies are fine with this. The point of this is is make them know they're not the worst. They need that reassurance. As you're walking through because once you're over that threshold, that's the worst moment for the hoarder. They've been keeping that a secret for years and once you've crossed it, it's all downhill. I said, once I'm in, don't say it like as you're coming through, "Hey, this is not so bad," and you're not even in the door yet. Make sure you're in and then say, "Hey, when's the last time you had somebody in this house?" They'll say, "I have in five years." "Thanks for letting me in. Thanks for trusting me." I will say, "Thanks for trusting me" a lot. Why would I say that? Because she hears in her head, "I can trust this guy." If you get into a dangerous situation, you didn't know it was bad and you need your safety gear, you might do that. You get in and, "Oh, my gosh!" You say, "Holy crap! This house is horrible. I'll be back in a minute." No, that's not going to work. "I'm sorry, ma'am. My insurance mandates I got to get my gear. I'll be right back." What did I just blame it on? Insurance. You can blame anything on insurance. We accept it. Two biggest issues for us is clients want to give us gifts. That's inappropriate and dangerous. "I'm sorry, ma'am. That's very nice. Insurance won't let us accept gifts." They want to make us food in the same hands that I pulled a rat out of two days ago. I can't say, "You're nastiest food is going to kill me." I say, "I'm sorry, ma'am. That's really sweet but insurance will not allow us to eat that food." "I'm sorry, honey. I can't do the dishes tonight. Insurance will not let me." It works every time. If you're not comfortable with insurance, the other angle is, "Hey, look. I do this everyday all day and I have a family, I need to protect my family." What do we learn earlier today? They're caring people. They care about you, probably more than you do. They care about everyone else in the world but themselves. It's okay whichever one you're comfortable with but get your gear on. I used to think it was more important to have that relationship and not have the gear on. I was wrong. You can make the relationship outside. You're in the house, have at least that N95 mask on. You can talk the whole time with that N95 mask on. There's no problem with that. Have them lead us through the house. It's her house. "Ma'am, where do I go?" "Sir, which way do I go? Your call." When you see a picture, "Hey, is that your dead mom?" Probably not the best way to say that. "Tell me about that picture." That gives them the choice to answer it or not. I thought it was a picture of her dead mom, it was not. It was actually a charcoal picture she had made of herself. It's a self-portrait with a number two pencil. Amazing. That opened up a new conversation, "Oh, I did that myself." "What? You did that yourself? That's amazing." Now, we're talking about something other than the hoard. This lady also had really nice antique cookie jars. "Tell me about those cookie jars." Not, "Hey, whose were those because we know they're old." Just "Tell me about blank", it's a very simple way to get information and they can choose or not choose to tell you. Ask permission for everything. "Can I put my food here?" "Ma'am, do you mind if I step here?" "Ma'am, do you mind if I put my hand on this where I balance through?" What am I doing by asking question after question after question? Building trust and repetition for her. A lot of these clients have not had to make decisions in a long time. This makes them make decisions. I give the comments if they're real. "Wow, that's a really awesome painting." That's real. Make sure it's real. They're super smart. They are smarter than us. If you are lying, they will know, so don't. 	Praise a good decision. If they're doing great for sorting or doing things, you say, "Hey, that's really good. Great job. You're doing awesome." The difference here is the rest of the world is saying, "You're gross, you're filthy, you're worthless," in their mind and you and I are saying, "Well, do you mind if I come in. Hey, this isn't that bad. Thanks for letting me in. I appreciate you trusting me. Can I put my foot here? Do you mind if I put here? Hey, that's a beautiful painting. Do you mind if I put my foot here? Hey, tell me about these dishes?" What's going to get more thread? Positive and in control or super negative? Obviously, it's this one but it's amazing how many people don't do that. I'm not saying to totally change your job. I am adjusting your job. Your timing shouldn't change at all. This shouldn't add anytime to your job. It will decrease time from your job because you're building this base of trust and compassion. When things finally start moving, the anxiety will be less. By the way, it's also the right thing to do. It's nice when the right thing to do business wise is also ethically the right thing to do. It's more effective. I'll skip through this. We don't do gifts. Hoarder hanging over is really important. The last day you're with them, they're going to get really mean and really angry and start yelling at you again. Why are they doing that? You've had this awesome two months with them and now they're really mean to you. They know you're leaving. We have this thing here, it's called the Hoarder Hangover. It's from an old textbook, not really, I made it up and it's in my book. You can get it in my book. You can also get it at cluttercleaner.com. It's free, just download it and print this page and you hand it to them and you say, "Hey, look." 	We made it look like an old textbook because people would believe it more out of an old textbook but it takes them through the emotional state. It lets them know, "Hey, look. This is normal. This is where you were and then triggers happened and you got really depressed and you hit rock bottom. Then we started working with you and you're feeling really good and we're leaving tomorrow and guess what? You're going to hit rock bottom again on Saturday." We're preempting this because what happens if you don't tell them it's going to get better? They give up because last time, their rock bottom lasted for 20 years. I can't tell you how many times their families called, "Oh, my God! You were totally right. I told mom about the Hoarder Hangover and she told me she was feeling better already." This lets them know that there's an end and it also preempts the 300 quote, "Where's my toothbrush? Where's my toothpaste? Where's this? Where's that?" When they do that, when they called 100 times, it's not really about the items. They miss the companionship. Side note, don't ever give your cellphone to a hoarder. I've learned that. We don't have time to practice. We're running low. Real quick, tell me, just yell it out, one really cool thing in this room. Nice chair, it's been sorted. I love that the cleaning materials have been opened. That means they're trying. That's really big. Great view. Green plant. I don't have green plants in my house that are real. Those are things you can talk about. This is a really important one. What's cool? American flag, what else? "Tell me about those pictures." The pictures have not built up and they've left this pathway. That's good. This picture, I don't know if you can tell, this lady has a perm and a mullet. A lecture from [Lovic 01:47:12] that is not normal. You got to be careful. That's when you go like, "That's a sweet mullet." You can't do that. You got to say, "Tell me about that picture." Anybody want to guess what happened in this situation? That baby died in a wreck. I have had a lot of loss in my life. I've lost every man in my life except my sons. I don't know what I would do if I lost any of my sons. I sure would not care about my living room. There's always a reason. I'm going to skip this one. This is a juicy ... I always say, "Tell me something nice about it." There's nothing nice about this picture. There's a sled, an old radio flyer sled. When you see this rust, I wish it was rust. What is it? It's urine and sewage from the city. It's other people's poop, OPP. Be careful. I just made that up but I'm using it. That's awesome. I will say that everyday. This is actually their cockpit. They live right here. She sits there. She washes her laundry, washer and dryer. This is the food that she eats. This is about a mud basement floor and that's asbestos up on those pipes which totally changes our jobs. Very dangerous. Should you have your gear on? Yes. Last picture. Anybody know who that is? Sting. I walked in this house, "Oh, my God! That's an awesome Sting poster." I started to tell the lady, "Oh, my God! When my mom and my dad got divorced, my dad took me to the Sting concert that night. It was my first concert ever. It was awesome. He just left the Police. It was so cool. When I went to school the next day, I saw this poster hanging in the hallway and that poster is the reason I read now today." Sometimes you can share too much. What situation did I create there? She wanted to give it to me in the first 10 minutes and now, I got to tell her, "No, thank you," in the first 10 minutes of our relationship. Don't share too much. This is on top of the couch. This is a couch full of newspaper. Five feet below that picture is the one of the worst basements I've ever been in my entire life. You don't always know what you're walking into. Those pipes are right under that couch. Be prepared for the worst. Every hoarder's house and fence are cool. Fence on the hoarders actually tells you where the cockpit is. It will be positioned to where they were sitting at one point. You'll find about 15 fence in a good hoarder house but it lets you know where they used to sit. Usually, you'll see a fan pointed and then you'll see a direct line to a TV somewhere. That lets you know where they're living. Anybody can throw trash away. This is obviously a mental disorder and we've crammed a ton of information for you to learn what's going on, how to address it. I do want to say the Service Master guys are experts on this and your region, I love them. They are very good to me. They have invested an incredible amount of time learning this process. I want you to walk away with this--respect, communication, compassion and earning that trust. Period. If you do that, the rest of it will work out. These are all the stuff ServiceMaster does. If you don't want to deal with it, they'll probable clean it. I'll tell you that. I just like that picture. Found Mr. Clean. If you need this, please take this picture. This is all of our information. If you need me, you can write me at info@cluttercleaner.biz. That's the phone number. One call does do it all, anything hoarding goes to that phone number. If you need it locally, whoever raised their hand, we'll help you. Guess what? If you call me and you need help physically, I'm going to call Blair. Can we stay? If you need to leave, you're free to leave. If you want to stay and ask questions or take pictures, we're here. Thank you, guys.